Curse

TheHaxor · Apr 26, 2008, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

From the early leaderboard: it appears that Yuris Sayuri and Lain are still better than you.

Either a) Double Ram didn't make a difference to the effectiveness of the strategy or b) ANet should WTB some new coders and testers.

ya well i wuz in grp wit u earlier n u wuz goin faster den me i think u wuz speed hackin u cheetr u always find exploit dat y u iz betta den vry 1 else

Ekelon · Apr 26, 2008, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Good. I got my high scores without using double ram method anyways.

Kashrlyyk · Apr 26, 2008, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

...
Either a) Double Ram didn't make a difference to the effectiveness of the strategy ..

That is of no importance. It doesn´t matter if exploiting the bug had an effect. People got banned for getting 50000XP from repeatedly doing the doppleganger quest. No effect on the game, still they got banned. The same has to happen here.

You get banned for exploiting a bug, not for effecting the game.

Solas · Apr 26, 2008, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

That is of no importance. It doesn´t matter if exploiting the bug had an effect. People got banned for getting 50000XP from repeatedly doing the doppleganger quest. No effect on the game, still they got banned. The same has to happen here.

You get banned for exploiting a bug, not for effecting the game.

I would give a max of a Temp ban, because some people may have found it out i tought it was ment to be like that.so would have to give some the benifit of the doubt.

Not a fan of the people that said "oh noes! its all skillz with the corner'n and thatz" that used the double ram effect purposly.

but the double ram did ruin Rollerbeetle racing for alot of players,maybe giving 100 beetles per rollerbeetle weekend?

Kashrlyyk · Apr 26, 2008, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talach_Ninneed

I would give a max of a Temp ban, because some people may have found it out i tought it was ment to be like that.so would have to give some the benifit of the doubt.

Not a fan of the people that said "oh noes! its all skillz with the corner'n and thatz" that used the double ram effect purposly.

but the double ram did ruin Rollerbeetle racing for alot of players,maybe giving 100 beetles per rollerbeetle weekend?

A) It is not spamming. I think 3 days for spamming is too much and 3 days for cheating is too little.

B) They terminated accounts for less. I see no reason, why to treat cheaters nicer than people, who did something that didn´t stop anybody from achieving something.

It is now up to ANet to be consisting and sift the shit out.

http://www.plaync.com/us/help/roc_gw.html

Quote:

Please be aware that failure to comply with these rules of conduct may result in the termination of your Guild Wars game account according to the Guild Wars User Agreement.

....

You will not exploit any bug in Guild Wars and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of Guild Wars. Bugs should be promptly reported via 'Ask a Question' at http://support.guildwars.com.

They banned people because of that once, they have to ban now, too.

Lain Akazukin · Apr 26, 2008, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

That is of no importance. It doesn´t matter if exploiting the bug had an effect. People got banned for getting 50000XP from repeatedly doing the doppleganger quest. No effect on the game, still they got banned. The same has to happen here.

You get banned for exploiting a bug, not for effecting the game.

LOL, are you out of your mind? There was no way of telling for anyone that ram wasn't working as intended. To me it was just a nice tactic some people used, like knowing certain places where dash or ram works best. It's like a skill that's overpowered in combination with another skill, so they nerf the skill but they don't ban the players who used the combo because they found out it works really well.

crazybanshee · Apr 26, 2008, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Wow, you mean they fixed an exploit that allowed people to cheat and win? QQ. I'm glad.

Lykan · Apr 26, 2008, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Wooo what a suprise duplicates in the top 100 still havent been fixed, lame, not gonna bother playing, stupid anet fix your game.

Lain Akazukin · Apr 26, 2008, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazybanshee

Wow, you mean they fixed an exploit that allowed people to cheat and win? QQ. I'm glad.

Uhh no, the same players are still winning this time. With double ram you could maybe improve your best time by at most a second or so and get some more consistency in your times, if you were already a good racer that is. Average racers probably benefitted more from the 'exploit'.

Dronte · Apr 26, 2008, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Well, that kills my amazing strategy on getting high scores. Gg to ANet for fixing something that didn't need to be.

I guess I'll see how this changes things in Racing this weekend.

Amazing strategy? And didnt need to be? It was cheating, so plz QQ moar.

4thVariety · Apr 26, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Since the record times still are at least 20% faster than anything normal people achieve, there still has to be knowledge surrounding the bahaviour of the game that eludes the regular gamer. The sort of undocumented fair game ruining type. Speed stacking only does so much, so there is most likely more to it than simply activating it. What's more important is the fact that the names in the highscore are not random. Even the top players score time which are up to 5% faster than regular top100 enties. Being that much slower on average across the whole race can neither be attributed to a single drop or hitting the ideal line (they all do), The fact that even the top times differ that much has to do with the way they were achieved. Even among the people knowing the special behavior, some players can pull it off better than others. Hence Roflcopter stays within his margin while the Top1 seems to beat him easily over and over. A classic sign that something has to be done over and over during the whole race to gain these mystical +20% (or do it 5% better than Rofl.)

Which made me remeber a lesson form Quake about how strafing could increase your speed. This is usually fixed in today's games with the intruduction of a maximum speed limit, Quake3 did this and failed miserably since there was a workaround involving jumping. In the same way the skills maybe can be used to exploit the GW engine to the same extend.

The following article details how to exploit 3D engines into moving the players at speeds higher than the predetermined maximum.

www.funender.com/quake/info/strafing_theory.html

Instead of using bunny"jumps" players might use bunny"speedboosts" for the same result. Using a skill pretty much removes friction the same way jumping did. This could explain why the users still referr to it as a "tactic". It still is a major breakdown of the game engine which most likely can't be patched if Top100 times work like that.

Solas · Apr 26, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

I tried a bit of racing But
Does the first speedboost and ram work like the double ram?
obviosly its not as good, but i just noticed it and had to ask.

Shayne Hawke · Apr 26, 2008, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talach_Ninneed

Does the first speedboost and ram work like the double ram?
obviosly its not as good, but i just noticed it and had to ask.

Doesn't even compare. I explained how the idea worked here.

MoriaOrc · Apr 26, 2008, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thVariety

Since the record times still are at least 20% faster than anything normal people achieve, there still has to be knowledge surrounding the bahaviour of the game that eludes the regular gamer. The sort of undocumented fair game ruining type. Speed stacking only does so much, so there is most likely more to it than simply activating it. What's more important is the fact that the names in the highscore are not random. Even the top players score time which are up to 5% faster than regular top100 enties. Being that much slower on average across the whole race can neither be attributed to a single drop or hitting the ideal line (they all do), The fact that even the top times differ that much has to do with the way they were achieved. Even among the people knowing the special behavior, some players can pull it off better than others. Hence Roflcopter stays within his margin while the Top1 seems to beat him easily over and over. A classic sign that something has to be done over and over during the whole race to gain these mystical +20% (or do it 5% better than Rofl.)

Which made me remeber a lesson form Quake about how strafing could increase your speed. This is usually fixed in today's games with the intruduction of a maximum speed limit, Quake3 did this and failed miserably since there was a workaround involving jumping. In the same way the skills maybe can be used to exploit the GW engine to the same extend.

The following article details how to exploit 3D engines into moving the players at speeds higher than the predetermined maximum.

www.funender.com/quake/info/strafing_theory.html

Instead of using bunny"jumps" players might use bunny"speedboosts" for the same result. Using a skill pretty much removes friction the same way jumping did. This could explain why the users still referr to it as a "tactic". It still is a major breakdown of the game engine which most likely can't be patched if Top100 times work like that.

I'm sorry, but you have no idea what your talking about. Getting a top 100 is a matter of three things:
1) item use strategy - Use the items you get to their maximum effect.
2) getting lucky - You need certain drops from the boxes before certain points. You have to avoid knockdown or de-synch at the beginning of the race. Getting a good starting color helps.
3) good ping - Pings above a certain amount are definitely not playable if you're going for top 100.
#2 takes a quite few trys, but everyone can get the right combination after enough runs.
#3 is unfortunate, but also not a matter of player skill. Plenty of people have low enough pings, though.
#1 is the problem for most players. I've been in races with plenty of people who get an echo-SRB, and while they can use it to win, most players have no idea how to use it for a top 100. They also hit dash at bad locations, and usually use ram as an attack instead of a speed boost (which is a bad idea if you want top-100).

The problem with #1 is that the mechanics of RBR are not obvious at all. You have the "RRPMs" which is a very non-obvious mechanic, and it doesn't work quite like it seems it should. You have useful skills like ram that don't mention their important mechanics (speed boost). It's because they haven't taken the time to learn the mechanicsor the track well enough that they don't know when to use rams / dashes / Echo-SRBs for best effect. This is not a fault on their part. You don't need to do these things to have a bunch of fun races, and I didn't for the first several RBR events. But if you want a top 100 time, you have to put in some time learning the game to get it.

I got 469k with a lucky Echo-SRB + no knockdown on my first race this weekend. I know a few ways I could have done quite a bit better with it, too.

Kashrlyyk · Apr 27, 2008, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lain Akazukin

LOL, are you out of your mind? There was no way of telling for anyone that ram wasn't working as intended. To me it was just a nice tactic some people used, like knowing certain places where dash or ram works best. It's like a skill that's overpowered in combination with another skill, so they nerf the skill but they don't ban the players who used the combo because they found out it works really well.

First of all they didn´t nerf an overpowered skill, they fixed a bug! That is a very important difference.

Second of all read the explanation of the bug given by Shayne Hawke. That was known since the last time people could win Rollerbeetles, to the exploiters maybe even longer. So they knew about the bug and exploited it.

Third of all ANet now has to look, if they can find the exploiters and then have to ban them.

Would a player, that never repeated any mission in Prophecies before the doppleganger, know that he should not get the experience reward every single time he beats the mission? Would he know it was a bug? Or would he think it was a weird feature? Remember, if it seems to be too good, maybe it is. That is the official stance.

Lain Akazukin · Apr 27, 2008, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

First of all they didn´t nerf an overpowered skill, they fixed a bug! That is a very important difference.

There was no way of telling that it was actually a bug or that ram was simply working as intended, I surely didn't see it as a bug even though I didn't know about the double ram tactic and never used it. I certainly would have used it though if I happened to find it out during my races. But as shown this weekend it doesn't make much difference for the top times anyways.

Quote:

Second of all read the explanation of the bug given by Shayne Hawke. That was known since the last time people could win Rollerbeetles, to the exploiters maybe even longer. So they knew about the bug and exploited it.

No, they didn't know it was a bug, for them it was just a tactic that worked well.

Quote:

Third of all ANet now has to look, if they can find the exploiters and then have to ban them.

You're really funny. First of all they are not going to do this, and second of all it would be impossible to do. End of story, now QQ some more plz.

Kashrlyyk · Apr 27, 2008, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lain Akazukin

There was no way of telling that it was actually a bug or that ram was simply working as intended, I surely didn't see it as a bug even though I didn't know about the double ram tactic and never used it. I certainly would have used it though if I happened to find it out during my races. But as shown this weekend it doesn't make much difference for the top times anyways.

ANets stance on that is: We didn´t know it, but you should have known. Remember the duping! If it seems too good, maybe it is. Being able to run for 4 seconds at 100% seems to be too good. Doesn´t Ram run at 100% no matter what underground you are on?

And the 50000XP bans showed us, that it doesn´t matter, that the exploit had no effect. The rules of conduct don´t say, you only get banned, if your exploiting hurts others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lain Akazukin

You're really funny. First of all they are not going to do this, and second of all it would be impossible to do. End of story, now QQ some more plz.

If you used it for 90% of your victories or races, you were exploiting a bug. Problem solved.

Lain Akazukin · Apr 27, 2008, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

ANets stance on that is: We didn´t know it, but you should have known. Remember the duping! If it seems too good, maybe it is. Being able to run for 4 seconds at 100% seems to be too good. Doesn´t Ram run at 100% no matter what underground you are on?

Yes that's the way ram works, so what? An srb is even better, omg it must be a bug because it's so good! Please...

Quote:

If you used it for 90% of your victories or races, you were exploiting a bug. Problem solved.

Yeah whatever, I'm happy ANet doesn't follow your silly logic. For me this discussion is over now, I'm gonna race some more now exploiting all rams and dashes to the max!

byteme! · Apr 27, 2008, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lain Akazukin

Yeah whatever, I'm happy ANet doesn't follow your silly logic. For me this discussion is over now, I'm gonna race some more now exploiting all rams and dashes to the max!

I wish I knew what to do so I can piss everyone off too!

jeff7878 · Apr 28, 2008, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Actually i think some of the people getting in the top 100 list are useing helpers, If you go too the asian dis1 korean language. You will find some of them there counting down too try and get in at the same time. It seems they go too a empty dis with hardly any people and count down together too try and get in at the same time. I was in there earlier today and seen some doing it next thing i know that same names where on the top 100 list. I should have take some screenies..But i was kinda pissed has this may be a reason why the ones on the top list have such high scores and it always seems too be the same people at the top. Of course i may be wrong too.